Show HN: HTML for People

simonw

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating.

I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-direc...

Not sure how best to approach that though. Having a whole chapter of the book explaining files and folders feels pretty redundant. Maybe there's something good you could link to?

mightybyte

I think the fundamental approach being taken by this project is immensely valuable to the world. This kind of education about open standards might actually be the most powerful tool that can help us take steps in the direction away from giant opaque corporations and back towards the systems based on open standards that the internet originated from. I really hope this project continues to be updated and get more and more eyes and contributors. If you feel the same way, I'd say at least throw it a GitHub star. https://github.com/blakewatson/htmlforpeople

(Note: I have nothing to do with this project thus far and have nothing to gain from saying this.)

forbiddenvoid

I love the idea and I'm thrilled to see more sites like this out there. But I do think this assumes a level of computer literacy that isn't consistent with typical, non-technical users.

Step 1 starts with:

> Pick a location on your computer and create a folder. Call it my-site or something similar.

You've already lost the vast majority of people right here. There are a shockingly large number of people out there that use computers EVERY day that won't know how to do this.

aardvark179

Why, “Start coding already!” rather than something like, “Start writing already?” I think half the barrier to people building sites is that they think they need to know how to code, and that seems scary, but they do know what they want to write, and that seems more approachable.

divbzero

I love the order of tutorial, starting simple to deploy something first:

1. Use Notepad/TextEdit to create a plain text index.html.

2. Deploy index.html to Neocities or similar.

3. Add content with headings and images.

And only then going back to:

4. Make it proper HTML with <head> and <body>.

5. Upgrade Notepad/TextEdit to Visual Studio Code.

debacle

> I don’t think websites were ever intended to be made only by “web professionals.”

I absolutely agree with this, in both directions - the tools we have kind of suck if the web WAS meant for professionals, but also that I remember learning HTML from tutorials in 1995, and back then there wasn't much of a difference between a good website or a great website except that a good website used a table based layout and didn't have prev/next navigation.

gabrielsroka

Would something like this work instead of using Notepad/TextEdit (at least at first)? Of course, this code could be made better...

  <textarea onkeyup='results.innerHTML=this.value'></textarea>
  <div id=results></div>

messo

I have tried so many times to convince non-technical people that they can put together their own website quite easily, but so often they think I'm joking and that it requires a lot of effort.

Next time I'll refer the to this site and ask them to give it half an hour and see what they can create in that time. I know that so many would get hooked if they just get that first taste of "wow, i just published something on the actual web!"

@blakewatson: Any plans to add i18n to the site and accepting pull requests for translations?

jimbosis

I plan to dig in deeper, but this looks like a great introduction to building websites.

I teach a one semester high school Web Design class and currently use a mixture of lessons from these two for learning the basics of making pages by hand with HTML and CSS:

https://internetingishard.netlify.app/

https://www.washington.edu/accesscomputing/webd2/student/ind...

This looks very promising and could supplant or at the very least supplement those.

henning

This is great. I love you how started with a tiny HTML file and didn't immediately ask the user to install NodeJS and VS Code and a ton of other webdev shit.

stego-tech

We sorely need more of this. HTML was the first language I actually understood (although BASIC was my first ever), and left me feeling empowered to carve out my own survival on the internet. While layering CSS and Javascript aren't bad decisions on their face, I do think they combine to create a steep barrier to entry for most newcomers as they're believed to be "Core" to the language of HTML itself.

Kudos to the author(s) for the site. I'll have to add it to my arsenal as a "next step" for folks who want something more custom than WP/Ghost on PikaPods w/ a theme, or who just really want to be totally independent.

ErikAugust

One additional book recommendation: HTML and CSS, the Good Parts.

AlienRobot

I'm happy to see more people recommending Neocities :D