gip
It is anecdotical, but I'm consulting with a startup in the Bay Area. We have 9 job openings listed on the website (and for some reason only 4 on LinkedIn). But in reality one position (senior dev) is really open, and the bar is sky high. By that I mean that the founders would hire the right person. But the other 8 positions are just there for signaling and nobody looks at the applications we get (and for one of these positions we got 1k+ applications last time I checked). For when I'm asked, the CEO told me to say that we are prioritizing finding the senior dev first (and the position has been open for 6 months).

I think the founders feel that it is the right posture to signal that the company is growing (external messaging) and that we are doing well (internal messaging).

jedberg
VCs are absolutely using job listings as a health metric, and it is leading to companies listing a bunch of jobs. They aren't exactly fake jobs -- they will hire someone if some unicorn walks in. But they are nice to have jobs, not necessary jobs.

Also some companies keep up generic listings like "Senior engineer" not because they are hiring but because they would be willing to make an opportunistic hire for the right person, and want to collect the names of interested people for when they are hiring.

gwbas1c
When I worked at VMware in 2008, I remember interviewing a candidate. Priorities changed, we weren't crazy about the candidate, and they didn't get hired. No one was ever hired for the opening, and ~1 year later the project was canceled.

> but they keep job reqs open for appearances

People hire for appearances. If you're a manager you need people to manage. It makes you feel important. That job that I had at VMware... The more I think about it, that job was making someone feel important, and feel like they were checking a box. My prior job was about making someone feel important, too. (My boss was promoted to manager so he hired me.)

So I wouldn't go and say that a company is pretending to be hiring. It's more that priorities change, or sometimes the bar for a position is high, ect, ect.

gcr
It’s rough out there, folks.

Anecdote: a while back, I did an internship at a YC “darling” company that you’ve definitely heard of. They apparently liked me so much that a couple years ago, the lead of intern recruiting emailed me encouraging me to re-apply if I was ever on the job market.

Well it’s fall 2024, and they automatically rejected my resume without review.

Apparently not even internships are good enough as a hiring signal anymore.

0x000xca0xfe
The tiny German startup I worked at last year was posting 4 dev positions. After some financial problems hit they announced (internally but in an official manner) that they were not going to hire anybody.

Couple weeks later I pointed out to the person responsible for hiring that the postings were still up. They explicitly responded that they will keep them up. I didn't get an actual reason but I think it was for job market "research" and to keep a steady stream of applicants to threaten existing employees with replacement.

Squeeeez
What kind of punishment does HR get if they reject good candidates?

I had a discussion with an HR person the other day, she was claiming things like "oh we would just paste their CV into chatgpt and ask whether we should hire them", "his belt didn't match his shoes so we blacklisted him", "he used forbidden words like 'but', not a good match". Maybe it was just an exception, but I have a feeling like it would be pretty common. Between that and black magic CV filtering software, they have all the excuses. Nothing human about anything in that process anymore.

neilv
I've heard startup founders pretending to hire, like it's a common best-practice.

Personally, I don't think it's very honest, and I'm going to wonder what other honesty they have flexibility about.

I wonder whether any of the third-party job-posting sites has figured out ways to say you're not much hiring -- or only hiring/promoting internally, or only filling a funnel for possible future openings, or only hiring if a rare unicorn comes along -- without that looking negative to people who only want simpleton metrics.

Maybe the cooling of "growth" theatre startups will make it OK to sound like you're not "growing" right now.

calpaterson
Haha, bold thread. I can understand the frustration as probably we all know this monkey business is too common - but I suspect that an open invitation to "name some names" is not probably not going to be a productive and useful as you might hope :)
dserban
> Is your company like this? If you have real info and not just suspicions, let’s name some names.

A certain company (the name starts with "A") is widely known for doing this, you might guess which company I refer to by deep-diving into my comments history.

It looks exactly like in this YT short: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/V5VAN6ldS9o

iknownthing
About a year or so ago I interviewed with Sourcegraph for about 6 months then they ghosted me and the role I was up for disappeared. Pretty sure no one got hired for it.
Buttons840
This thread reminds me. I once called out a Who's Hiring post on HN. I publically replied and commented that I was a good fit and had applied, but never heard anything in return. A short time later HN got more strict about "no discussion" in the Who's Hiring post. What a shame.
GenerWork
I'm a product designer. The UX market is seemingly frozen right now. There's a bunch of influencers on LinkedIn who post new jobs and use this as evidence that the industry is turning the corner, but at the same time I keep seeing more and more looking for work badges, and many seniors I know who are quite good at their craft are simply unable to get interviews. I myself am looking for a new job and jobs hardly send out rejection emails anymore, which is new to me.
giantg2
I actually had an internal lateral posting frozen... after passing all rounds of interviews. Basically, I was told I was the strongest candidate but they had concerns over questions I raised about context switching and requirements related to my disability. Then they told me they were freezing the posting. Open internal posting over the past year as hovered around .5% of the company headcount. So even internal movement at my company is terrible.
sentrysapper
I'm not affiliated with them but ghostjobs.io is doing awesome work tracking companies that do this.

For the job seekers on HN, avoid companies that engage in this behavior.

Brian_K_White
My other favorite is sometimes there are posts here where the company is apparently looking to hire every single position required to make a company.

Well, in that case sure, I too am a multinational firm servicing the ___ industry just looking to fill a few roles: senior back end engineer, senior front end engineer, senior sales manager, senior accountant, founding product concept... that's all.

water-data-dude
The title made me think you were looking for folks to make up a company and pretend they’re hiring folks :(

Well, if anyone wants to pretend to apply to my imaginary tech startup, we have an exciting product that combines intrusive cameras all over the customer’s house with cutting edge AI to blast a bloodcurdling scream through their smart speakers whenever they bite into a piece of fruit.

golly_ned
My last company, OctoAI, would leave postings up even through layoffs. They'd go unfulfilled; exceptional candidates would still join the company on occasion, but not through the front door.
eitally
I work in cloud consulting and we definitely do not act like this. We currently maintain almost 0 bench for one of the hyperscalers and recruiting is proving to be very difficult for senior technical consultants (both infra & data domains). I have two roles listed via LinkedIn right now and I can't tell you how many low quality applications I've received. Lots of people are using the "easy apply" to try their luck, even if they're not remotely qualified.

This is sort of the flip side of what others have described about having a post listed just in case a unicorn walks in. I don't need unicorns. I just need solid cloud consultants with a few years of client facing experience.

diego_moita
We, job seekers, should react against it. We should post their names here.

There are a lot of posts like that on HN's Who's Hiring. One of the most obvious examples is MixRank [0].

On the last jobs thread, they reposted [1] the same job advertisement they've been bot-posting for almost 2 years. It is identical.

And HN doesn't even allow us to flag/report this abuse.

Other companies that do the same: Cargado, Aha!,...

HN's "Who's Hiring" is turning into a trap.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41129813#41131139

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41709301

edferda
Honest question, not trying to be confrontational, just curious every time I see these kind of posts/anecdotes.

It seems to me that finding a job in tech is easier than finding a job in any other professional field (e.g. chemical engineering). I am an electrical engineer myself and it was easier to get a job that paid better doing programming than in EE. Specially for the effort you have to put in.

How is it that HN complains so much about the whole process? Are people only applying to big tech companies or hot startups hoping to get the compensation they have been getting for the past n years?

There must be plenty of tech jobs in non tech industries doing normal, “boring” work like dba or maintaining legacy systems.

I mean, those kind of jobs still pay enough to live a normal, decent life. They might not be exciting but work is work. Although that is my take, coming from a 3rd world country and all.

Or am I just delusional and the “boring” jobs(that pay less but still enough) are nonexistent?

I am not from the US so I really don’t know how the market looks outside of the FAAANG/startup bubble. Heck, last time I checked even the US government needed tech folks. It feels that there are jobs out there but the jobs don’t match people’s expectation. But I could be really wrong.

Delphiza
This has always been the case in all industries. The applications that you get, by volume or type, may change depending on people looking for work. It is not restricted to tech either. If you are in the "Laser" industry and post a job looking for a _shark wrangler_, it is an indication that you are a good company to call if one is looking for "sharks with laser beams attached to their heads".

My wife was looking for a job earlier this year (non tech), and it was interesting to see the grind from the outside. It seems that we are at the point where job seeker AIs and job poster AIs are just going to have to fight it out. There is no way to tell if a job is real or if you are going to get ghosted. As a candidate you don't have the time to research and write cover letters. It is a numbers game and if you are going to get ignored hundreds of times, you need to send out hundreds of applications, so you have to spam job postings. Job postings get lots of spam, so it is difficult to rise to the top of the pile. Each party needs a better AI than their competitors. It used to be a better CV, or a better job posting, but those days are long-gone.

hi-v-rocknroll
The appropriate response is to reject working for unethical corporations, unionize, and/or form your own company to keep more of the value of your effort.
sireat
It might be some small comfort that this "fake hiring" situation has always been around and is not limited to US and dev positions.

Anecdotally, my wife applied to a large European cross-country multi-billion project as an architect. She had the perfect mix of government and private experience in relevant technologies or so we thought. There was no response.

The position remained open for a half year more along with dozens more.

Why would someone waste money advertising (even in print) on these positions, if no interviews were conducted?

Apparently all that happened is that high level management hired HR firm to place advertisements and collect candidates for lower level positions that would actually do the work. Presumably this was done in good faith in that project would be moving forward.

Now two years later the project has 4X ballooned in cost to 25 billion. Those local positions are still not filled.

slake
One social media agency mentioned that the best way to build Linkedin followers is to have multiple job posts open even if your'e not hiring. The applicants follow you and you have healthy follower growth. Super-dodgy in my opinion.
austin-cheney
A couple of places have reached out to me to interview for their senior full stack position in the past few weeks including Capital One. I am currently employed though and no longer willing to do corporate web work.

My experience in looking for work last year suggests that corporate job portals were all ignored. I had employees I knew at Walmart and Fidelity confirm this to me and it was double confirmed by various third party recruiters who struggled to fill positions they knew actually did exist. Most of these openings were legally required in conformance with EEO laws but just weren’t real, at least to the public.

93po
Throughout 2022, before all the crap job market now, my employer 100% had a couple job postings (it was small so there was only like 4 total) that they had zero desire to fill, even if a great candidate came along. I think mostly in a "nice to have contacts in case we do need someone again" or they find someone who's really qualified and really really inexpensive. For product management roles, if it matters.
pabs3
Hmm, "they keep job reqs open for appearances" sounds like fraud?
OkGoDoIt
My wife works for a large tech company in San Francisco. There’s someone on her team that they are sponsoring an H1B visa for, and apparently one of the requirements for that is that they need to try to fill the position with a citizen/resident if possible. So they had an officially-open position with HR and she has personally interviewed candidates that legitimately thought they might get the job but she had to find reasons to reject them so the company could say “we tried to find someone local to hire but we were unable to find someone good enough, please approve the H1B”. This was during the pandemic work-from-home so I personally overheard these interviews. It’s amazing to me that this actually happens and isn’t just some crazy conspiracy theory. I have no idea how widespread it is but this is a major company, not some random sketchy startup.
INTPenis
Funny you should say that because I've been suspecting the same thing here in Sweden.
aryehof
Pretending to be hiring has been going on for years.

“We are hiring” == “we are always open to consider a special James Bond special one-in-a-thousand special developer”

lmaoguy
Intel
myapp
Wouldn't leaving job reqs open be an indicator of not being able to attract talent?
Madmallard
My ultra qualified friend who is a lead at a fortune 500 company has only had 2 leads in 11 despite being probably in the top 3 best available candidates for all 11 applications. So yeah, I don't think many tech companies are actually hiring.
_DeadFred_
This entire thread triggers the "I hate this' meme in me so hard.
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