Aurornis
I enjoyed Notion at first for certain tasks, but it became much less enjoyable as everyone tried to force everything into emoji-laden Notion docs. The Notion spaces used by the Product and Program managers I worked with in the past few years have become a collection of half-finished documents that are always out of date, hard to find, and often superseded by some new Notion page they created but forgot to tell us about until we had spent weeks following the old one.

In a way, Notion has come to occupy the same space as Jira for me: A tool that tries to be everything to everyone and gets abused by people who feel like using as many features as possible is a best practice.

I’ve had better success lately asking people to step outside of Notion and instead work in an old-fashioned shared Google doc. It’s amazing how much more productive we can all be when the tools are simplified to exactly what we need and people don’t feel like they need to sprinkle emojis and checklists and other features into everything just because they can.

apsurd
Another anecdote added to the "I don't get notion" pile.

I just don't get notion. I use Apple Notes for everything id use notion for + scratch.txt on every project folder root. (i've used notion, quip, gdocs, dropbox paper)

Notion lives rent free in my mind because while im indifferent to it, people seem to LOVE it. and that's so fascinating.

even this article, I upvoted it because the conversation about notion is interesting, the article itself is a dud after reading it.

we live in a world where Notion is a multi billion dollar company and i have no idea why—now that's interesting!

btown
I've often thought that, looking historically, Notion only exists because product innovation in Google Docs is decoupled from revenue growth for Google Workspace. Putting a draggable handle, at the user's election, alongside every paragraph in Docs, and adding a customizable shortcut for search across docs, would go a long way towards Docs being 90% of what Notion's value proposition was as of a few years ago. But most startups using Notion already had Google Workspace for email anyways, so there was no growth story there for Google to invest in this mandate.

Now, Notion's done a lot since then. If you want a knowledge base that can also have semi-structured tabular data, and portability in that data, it's hard to beat. Notion AI, pulling from disparate sources with the context of the current planning document, is really neat, too! But not every company will want to pay the per-head cost for this, unless it can replace other existing tools.

And when it comes to spaces like CRM in that context, looking at https://www.google.com/search?q=notion+crm&udm=14 ... there's a lot that could be said about Notion's (lack of) SEO/advertising there, but more concretely, a CRM solution nowadays has to bring a wealth of integrations as a near-prerequisite, and Notion doesn't have a mature story there - nor can they easily, because different customers will have different data models that make it hard to have a standardized notion of "what fields can I count on to be present for an Account."

Notion is a really powerful system. If it didn't already have a $10B valuation, it would be in tremendously good shape. But it has a long way to go to find the areas of growth it needs to grow beyond $10B.

epiccoleman
I like Notion but I share the sense that it's not really targeted at my use case anymore. I think I could essentially move everything into Obsidian and lose almost nothing in the process.

I just use it for taking notes and writing stuff down. I like how easy it is to drop an image, video, or document into a notion page, but I've only barely used features like databases which seem to be the big selling point, and none of my usage of those is really anything that couldn't just be a plaintext table in a markdown doc.

One of these days I'll get up the gumption to crawl through, excise what's worth keeping into Obsidian , and cancel my subscription. But not today, lol.

karakanb
It still blows my mind that Google Docs still haven't taken over Notion's business altogether. I have used Notion for ~6 months for my own company, ended up going back to Google Docs because it was not worth it. I am sure there are a billion other uses of it, we weren't using any of its database-like features, just as an internal documentation platform, but still fascinating to see a business thrive on the lack of innovation of a giant.

In practice, Google could put a tree-like organization of docs on the sidebar, make the search a bit comfier, and make draggable blocks, and get 80% of the Notion users. I guess they don't have a financial incentive to make docs better, but I would gladly pay extra to have everything there.

I guess someone could build a browser extension that adds that UI to Google Docs, or eventually I'll go and do it myself.

anh690136
I started as a Notion user, but then it gets complicated and overwhelming quickly. It can be a good database and beautiful system, but for individual use cases, it’s too much for ADHD. I tried to use Apple Notes and Docs from then, but with too many notes, insights get buried and cannot be found easily. So I built an AI note app called saner.ai since & it worked better for me at least.
danpalmer
This is a fun piece of creative writing, but I’m not quite sure of the point it’s trying to make about Notion. Is it that Notion is no longer cool? That might be true but isn’t the most insightful comment. Is it about Notion the company languishing in some way?
skissane
I use Notion because I have to, not because I like it.

Other teams still use Confluence. People said Notion is a lot better than Confluence. Well, I agree I'd rather use it over Confluence, but that's a very low bar for comparison.

For ages they didn't have a find-and-replace feature. I just checked, it looks like they've finally added it in the last few months, but this is the first I notice.

They claim you can export stuff as markdown, but if I export as markdown, edit and reimport, I lose half of the formatting – even basic formatting which is part of the markdown spec.

Their native format (which their API exposes) is a bunch of extremely complex JSON blobs. I thought about writing a tool to let me download stuff, edit it in a sane text editor, then reupload it, but when I saw the complexity I just gave up.

felipefar
It seems that Notion is a kind of product that tries to solve issues from many areas, so it has everything that almost solves a meaningful problem for the user, but not quite. So the burden is on the user to go that extra mile, who will have to search for templates, memorize how non-standard tech works just to setup and maintain a system that only the maintainer knows how it works.

Some people use Notion for research and academic writing, which is the same use case for my software (https://getcahier.com). By specializing on this specific use case, I've been able to: offer a standard data model that's widely used in the field (bibtex), innovate in the PDF reader in the direction that my users need (by adding scrollbar markers for the relative position of highlights), and provide clear instructions to users on how to use the software. In principle, learning to use the software is learning how to perform an activity better - in this case, formal or informal research. When working with a software that's too general the user will always have to ask himself an additional question: "now, how do I make it do what I need?".

As the mathematician Hardy used to say, a beautiful theorem is one that is not too specific but also that is not too general - it has to strike a balance between the two.

Pi9h
If you are looking for a self-hostable Notion alternative, I am building Docmost, which is open source.

It has real-time collaboration and support for diagrams (drawio, excalidraw and mermaid).

It can be tempting to want to do it all, but I am focused on building a great wiki and documentation software.

GitHub: https://github.com/docmost/docmost

dcchambers
I generally think Notion is a pretty great product but IMO it's the poster child for "jack of all trades, master of none."

Yes, lots of things can be done in Notion, but most of them are done better elsewhere with dedicated tools.

I think it's core functionality as a team wiki (aka a confluence replacement) is the one thing it does best and better than most competitors...

eedeebee
Whenever I have to use Notion, I find it a waste of time compared to other tools :(
saltcod
Hasn't come up much here, but part of the appeal is that Notion is extremely flexible. You can create a regular old company knowledge base, but also feed in/out things from a ton of other systems and organize them.

Notion's main strength and stickiness imo is as a hub.

ryanschneider
Not that I expect them to fix it at this point since it seems to be a known issue, but just in case anyone from Notion is watching please fix the macOS app’s CPU usage. On a brand new M3 MacBook Pro each tab takes about 10% of one core _non-stop_ even in the background. I have to constantly cull tabs or my machine becomes noticeably less responsive.
anonygler
Notions kinda funny. It has this stickiness among a college aged, tech savvy demographic that’s not generating any revenue for them but has garnered a massive valuation relative to their revenue.

They want business from me, a tech savvy technical leader in an enterprise who mostly doesn’t care about what they offer. I want all my docs to live in Git, the way it does in Google’s g3doc.

We use Notion and, while it seems better than Confluence, I’ve never actually authored a single thing in it. It has no overlap with my goals. The world should be accessible from my IDE, and if I were them that’s where I’d really focus: a bi-directional sync and a first class VS Code plugin for whatever their file format looks like.

niyogi
notion was the beneficiary of the mass exodus of users who felt betrayed by evernote's weird pricing change many years ago. they had a great evernote importer which made it easy to migrate and then grew way beyond the elegant simple product they once were.

a new notion is lurking somewhere waiting to ride in the wake of a growing disgruntled pile of notion users

bigyikes
Funny, but how wrong are they? I haven’t had the misfortune of using Salesforce, but isn’t it a glorified relational DB in the same way that Jira is?

I know a few people at Notion, and one thing I can say is that they have taste, in the way Apple has taste. I think this shows in their product.

supriyo-biswas
I don't think is as big of a deal the author is making out to be - such pages are usually written out of SEO considerations.

If there's a conversation within a company about getting dedicated CRM software and they're already a Notion user or strongly considering Notion for their wikis and documentation, getting the word out there that Notion can also function like a reasonable CRM replacement can help close that deal or prevent a conversation about how Notion might not meet their needs.

mvkel
We switched from Google Workspace to Notion around 2018. It worked really well as a company wiki. A lot of the exec team lived in there.

The most painful part, the part that led to us switching back, was how painfully slow Notion was. Thanks to Electron, it used an obscene amount of ram, and a lot of opportunities to jot an idea down, or file something in the right place, were lost because of that slight lag.

Like being forced to cold-start Chrome to visit any website.

Knowing it would feel tedious to open Notion made me reconsider if the idea was worth writing down at all.

In some cases, it was!

ilikerashers
I use notion and like using it. But it’s high contrast Jira.

Yes it’s decluttered but it’s not a very sticky product.

wokwokwok
https://www.notion.so/templates/category/crm

> Streamline your customer relationships with Notion's CRM Templates

It's a joke, but it's also not a joke.

I mean, come on. Is notion really pitching itself as a CRM?

It's not a CRM. Anyone who uses it as a CRM is an idiot, bluntly.

...

https://www.notion.so/use-case/crm

Oh, wait. I guess it's a supported use case. I uh... take it back... I guess...

> If you don’t want to use a dedicated CRM platform or start from a template, you can use a no-code platform like Notion to build a knowledge base or team homepage and modify it to fit your CRM needs.

Yeah, I guess some people will think that's a good idea.

pentagrama
Notion feels like early Tarantino.
nsonha
It's always amazed me that Notion got as popular as it did. It's not exactly user-friendly nor technically cappable (not having API or any kind of external integration for most of its existence).

There seems to be a group of nerds that's apparently pretty huge and have enough decision making power that it was able to tap into.

theGnuMe
I just want an AI assistant that can organize things for me in some kind of note taking /wiki/something… it needs to take raw data and make it useful… you know like an assitant would, specifically around projects etc…
breck
It turns out, language matters. The PPS stack is about to eat the software world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth%27s_called_shot

Ali_Jiwani
If you wrote a book. I would buy it.
meindnoch
Is anyone still using Notion? Serious question.
moralestapia
*yawn*

I wish I had a 70 million/year mid-life crisis funded by web-based notepad.

semiinfinitely
Notion sucks and I hate it!
boiler_up800
Not sure what the point of this is. Every company I’ve worked at stores everything in notion. Managers and ops people keep it up to date and organize processes in there.
prdonahue
Notion was clearly made by people who do not use or understand keyboard shortcuts; you can't even properly select text without using the mouse.

It's been somewhat maddening switching from Confluence.