gjadi
Also posted a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41590466 In case you're interested in what was discussed before on this topic.
shipscode
Let me break down how the media industry works nowadays since there’s a lot of confusion in these comments.

Most media organizations have a small number of in-house journalists on verticals that make sense.

The rest of the content is curated and brought in from content partners and written outside of the news organization.

In practice they function more like a social media feed than traditional newspapers. I’m no fan of CNN, but this isn’t exactly a scandal, media had to adapt to keep up with so much being on social media these days, they all do this.

corysama
I’ve heard that a while back Google had a change to their algo that heavily prioritized widely used websites as “trusted”. The very most well known sites in the world, such as cnn.com, would be treated as the best results for anything they contained.

In response, many of the most used web sites flooded their own sites with transparently fake product reviews full of SEO phrases about “we spent N weeks testing K products to root out the very best” and very little else. The actual reviews would be pretty much copy-pasted from the description provided on the product producer’s site.

And, that’s how Google made itself useless for finding product reviews.

jmull
Is "fake" the right word?

I was under the impression that the generic "news"/"information" on many sites is purchased (or otherwise obtained through some kind of business relationship) from some other organization.

And I just don't get this perspective from the article:

"For some unfathomable reason, CNN agreed to a deal. What the fuck CNN? You’re CN fucking N. What in god’s name convinced you this was a good idea? And you already had a ramped up affiliate program. I say again: what the fuck CNN?"

I guess I can't figure out what the problem is supposed to be here. I don't think there's necessarily a problem with fleshing out a site with generic content. I would guess CNN has an agreement with the content provider on the general character of content, and can surely opt out of things they don't want to be associated with.

FWIW, I opened "CNN underscored money" and at the top of the page it says:

"Content is created by CNN Underscored’s team of editors who work independently from the CNN Newsroom. CNN earns a commission from partner links on the site but the reporting here is always independent and objective." (plus there's an "advertiser disclosure" link but I didn't click on it).

I just don't get what the problem is here.

jccalhoun
I haven't had cable for a long time so I can't say anything about the quality of the programming on the CNN channel. However, cnn.com has been full of affiliate links and barely detectable "sponsored" stories for years.
doodda
There are SEO agencies that do this as a model. I know because I have been pitched by them.

1. You run a content website with a strong domain rating. 2. They approach you with an offer of creating a subsite (your brand + advisor, marketplace, etc) on your domain 3. They write all the content and completely manage the subsite - you have 0 risk (aside from brand risk) 4. You split the affiliate revenues from the subsite 5. The internet is now full of shitty content shilling diet pills and google can't figure it out

rootusrootus
In related news, almost everything you can find through a Google search is unmitigated crap. Finding it on Google is an indictment of the quality. Back in the day, something like Wikipedia was what people dreamed the Internet would be. How naive of us.

I half expect to start seeing new incarnations of things like Prodigy or Compuserve spin up, aiming to provide an Internet-within-Internet type of experience. Without advertising, purely pay-to-play. Sure, a lot of regular people will never pay for such a thing, but I bet there are enough of us that will pay for good quality content (and shielding from crap) that it could be viable. Maybe the 'net gets balkanized and the 'free' part left as a wasteland.

(or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man and I should go get a cup of coffee and quit my bitching)

streptomycin
In 2005, some scammy ad company paid me to do similar stuff - let them completely control some pages on a high ranking domain. Google figured it out after a few months and blacklisted my entire domain until I removed them. Crazy that this is still an issue.
westcort
Publishers sometimes have advertorial divisions. This is not a new phenomenon. No, this does not prove true your favorite candidate’s lies or alternative realities.
pyuser583
A few years ago I went online and looked at the articles my local paper was putting out in the 1800s.

There weren’t any.

Instead they had little blurbs, online they’d be called “tweets” or “posts” mostly submitted by readers.

That was journalism in a midwestern city in the 1800s.

bze12
A good article about a somewhat similar scheme by Taboola https://www.readmargins.com/p/taboola-outbrain-and-the-chum-...
suyash
What can you expect from main stream media? It's mostly either propaganda or commercials wrapped up as new stories.
ethagknight
Interesting find, serious question: does it matter?
farceSpherule
Who in the hell reads CNN, USA Today or Forbes?

They are all rags.

stevebmark
I'm guessing that Forbes Marketplace offers revenue sharing with each website they make this deal with, so it's profitable for all parties. Is there actually an issue here - legal or ethical or deceptive? This seems like business as usual. Is the main complaint that the integrity of these news websites is weakened by having affiliate marketing? Asking seriously because while no one likes ads, I'm trying to understand what the moral/ethical implication of this is, if any.
ec109685
I am seeing questions about why this is a big deal?

The issue is that CNN is using their domain authority to boost this drivel affiliate Money content, and hiding the fact that they are doing it by using layer 7 routing to cloak the site. If CNN used a subdomain, e.g. money.cnn.com, Google could learn that this content should be judged independently from the rest of the site.

This money content isn’t competing fairly. Google is being tricked to think these Money articles should have the same inherent authority as other CNN articles.

Where this impacts the consumer is that the first articles for popular search terms aren’t the best, but instead written by content marketers chasing the highest affiliate. This crowds out legitimate sites (e.g. in depth reviews of the best mortgage lenders) because they can’t hope to rank higher than CNN for the same term.

At the very least, this “path based” cloaking of content authorship should be detectable by Google, but it’s a game of whack a mole, unfortunately.

I think if you had a human curate the best content written for these popular SEO’d search terms, they’d be able to find the diamonds from the rough. That gives some hope that algorithms can improve to rank the most useful content for readers.

It’s also why Reddit is so popular as a source of content in Google.

arbuge
It's good research but whatever you think about the value of the content on those sites, I think the word "fake" in the headline is misleading clickbait.

These sites are officially linked to from the parents (CNN and USA Today in this case), with whom they no doubt have a revenue-sharing agreement. They're very real in all senses of the word. The third party in question (Forbes marketplace) is not trying to fraudulently set up some parallel CNN and USA Today websites without their authorization.

karol
Milking old established brands such as Telegraph, Guardian and the likes with affiliate and sponsored content has been going on for ages in the UK.
Dotnaught
I'd be interested to see whether the Federal Trade Commission sees a problem with privacy policies and disclosures varying on the same website. I think there's a case to be made that the differences in data gathering fall short of informed consent and that the unified branding for different entities constitutes deceptive advertising.
IAmGraydon
And what happens when an organism (Google) becomes overrun with parasites? It dies because it can no longer sustain the functionality that is essential to life. That is, unless it suddenly grows an immune system.
jefb
Nice bit of sleuthing here, well done. Anyone know where those search traffic graphics are made from?
mike50
Gannet and CNN are already bottom of the barrel for journalism. Both are just rewritten wire articles at best. Both companies were obsolete 10 years ago at best.
calimoro78
It does not bother me that the Money and Shopping sections of CNN are run with content by another firm that specializes in interest based articles while the core of CNN remains focused on world news.
joshdavham
The plot thickens! Also wouldn’t this present some sort of a conflict of interest as each of these sites (Forbes, CNN, USA Today) are now competing with eachother for SEO?
nashashmi
Way back when I remember cnnmoney.com was a separate company to cnn owned by the same people who owned forbes
mylons
what if i told you Forbes 30u30 was paid advertising?
ChrisMarshallNY
Eh, I never considered the Underscored sites to be a part of the main site anyway. I just think of them as “Outbrain”-type subsites.

This just confirms it.

I feel the title of the blog entry is maybe a bit “extreme,” but it does show some well-done sleuthing.

Media companies have had to drastically change their business models, lately, and this is just another part of it.

photochemsyn
The only reason to pay any attention to CNN, USA Today or Forbes is to understand what's on the minds of the corporate oligarchy in the United States. They're just propaganda feeds, the modern version of the tin-horn propaganda blared out by speakers installed in Red Square in Moscow in the 1970s.

This doesn't mean the stories published are false, or even inaccurate - but there's a big negative space in their media coverage. E.g. if culture war issues are amplified, but there are no stories on industrial policy, infrastructure problems, manufacturing job and supply chain analysis - that's deliberate. No, it's not 'what the public wants', it's what the owners of these media outlets want their readers to be thinking about.

bankcust08385
CNN is first a chumbox marketplace.
lotharcable
There are liability issues for any sort of "money" or finance paper that don't exist for regular news reporting.

Under regular news reporting journalists have no legal obligation to their readers or the truth. They can say anything they want, essentially. It can be accurate, or not. It can be the truth, or not. It really doesn't matter. You can be lying for personal profit or political effect or any reason you want and it really isn't something you can get sued over. Just have to avoid tripping over defamation laws.

Where as if you are dealing with financial reporting there is legal liability. It is possible to get busted for committing fraud, it is possible to get sued for misleading information.

So keeping these sides of the business completely separated is probably a good way to limit liability.

alsance
So, what's the big deal? We've seen this same sort of thing happen with literally thousands of news media sites over the last 10 years.

Seems the real intention here is say that since there are affiliate ads and advertorials on the site, the entire site is somehow "fake news".

That's quite a stretch.

A fake news site would say something like Covid is "just the flu". Or maybe, let's say, endorse lies about an election being rigged.

Or focus on new conspiracy theories. Every. Single. Week.

Neither site does anything like that — No reputable news organization would ever do something that irresponsible, right?

That would be fake news.

smrtinsert
Buy placements on another content website is as old as the web itself. Not sure what the shock here is.
tootie
A large media organization on two tech stacks for the web presence is not really evidence of anything. Any large organization struggles to maintain cohesive infrastructure. Especially if they've acquired sub brands. Or just because different editorial teams have different requirements. That's not to say CNN money isn't shady but this isn't proof of anything.
silexia
CNN became unreliable and started turning out propaganda years ago. Monetizing it is just the next step.
lupire
So?

Every news site has advertising sections

https://www.cnn.com/cnn-underscored/about

"Content is created by CNN Underscored’s team of editors who work independently from the CNN newsroom. When you buy through links on our site, we may earn a commission."

tills13
ok and?
Chinwe888
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hofo
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throwaway984393
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nickphx
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bofadeez
Many would agree that the official CNN and USA Today are already "fake" in a sense.
hedora
I noticed a steep dive in CNN news quality post acquisition. (Around when they fired a bunch of reporters people for claiming Trump lost in 2020 instead of hedging their statements).

Anyway, I’m not surprised. As far as I’m concerned they’re already out of business (just like National Geographic, which currently employs zero staff writers).

hereme888
That's why my main source of meaningful news is X.

Just follow a few high quality independent journalists and also let the open-source algorithm rank content to show you.