candiddevmike
> One of the most significant restrictions occurred in 2019, when Microsoft adopted new licensing terms that imposed extreme financial penalties on businesses wanting to use Windows Server software on Azure’s closest competitors, such as Google Cloud and AWS. Microsoft’s own statements indicate that customers who want to move their workloads to these competitors would need to pay up to five times more.

Sounds like textbook anti-competitive behavior. Unfortunately cloud is super sticky, MS knows this will force folks to Azure and even if it gets thrown out in court the customers won't be able to move back easily.

jeppester
It's deeply frustrating to witness how MS is able to force their often inferior products on everyone through their dominance.

If competition was working well a product like teams would have been forced to become much better or it would have died.

dijit
HA! GOOD!

(FD: I made a submission recently that was very pro GCP... I promise I'm not a shill: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41648371).

I used to run Windows Server for The Division and Division 2 gameservers and honestly we got completely fucked by this.

I made a slide once that showcased the high cost of licensing on GCP compared to bare-metal, and BYOL (bring-your-own-license) was explicitly forbidden by Microsoft for cloud.

Here's the slides: https://sh.drk.sc/~dijit/devfest2019-msv.pdf slide 35 is what you're after.

Nobody sane runs Windows on the server, and Ubisoft has now completed the multi-year arduous task of porting Snowdrop to Linux (ironically, largely because of Stadia- another Google thing). As has Sharkmob (my former employer) and RENNSPORT (my current employer). Though it cost us 6 months of work, and is thus far my most controversial decision as CTO.

To be completely clear here: our infrastructure spend was millions of dollars, 30% of that was direct to Microsoft, a fee that would not have existed had we used Azure.

zokier
A stumbling block here might be that neither Azure nor Windows Server has that big of a market share in the wider cloud market. In that case it could be argued that no matter how unfair, their pricing is not illegal; market power is afaik fairly significant aspect in anti-competitive lawsuits
nerdjon
Am I misremembering or did Oracle do this exact same thing to try to get people to use their cloud? Struggling to find anything on it now, but were they sued?
multimoon
I keep picturing the Spider-Man pointing at Spider-Man meme.
kmeisthax
I'm going to be honest, every time I've evaluated Azure - either for personal use or at my job - it's seemed less like a competitive cloud offering and more like a sink for IT departments overly burdened with money. I mean, all cloud is like that, but at least on AWS the pricing is fairly straightforward if you want to economize.

As an example: I was looking at remote desktop hosting at work once. Azure lists no pricing; they give you a calculator that has about 40 knobs you can tweak, and it doesn't include the cost of software licenses. Oh wait, software licenses? Shouldn't Microsoft just bundle the cost of the Windows licenses into the cost of hosting Windows? Yeah, you'd think so, but no! Azure remote desktop is actually all BYOL (bring your own license) and you need to either buy special Enterprise SKU licenses (E5/E7 AFAIK) that Microsoft only sells through resellers (at twice the cost of a normal Windows client license[0]) or have all your employees on Windows volume keys that somehow magically license the VMs when they connect to their remote desktop (which... defeats the point of remote desktop).

On AWS they just list pricing for people with their own Windows licenses and people who want to buy a license through AWS. All the licensing costs are bundled into the monthly cost of the VM and they list fairly straightforward performance, RAM, and storage tiers for those VMs. It was at least enough information to inform me that remote desktop was a fool's errand no matter how much it might fix other IT problems. The Azure pricing assumes you're already so deep into the Microsoft ecosystem that you're mainlining volume license keys like heroin and Microsoft has your bank account details on speed-dial.

[0] If you don't want to mess about with separate VMs per user and want, say, Windows Server with a bunch of people signed into one VM, then the licensing costs double again. I would REALLY like to know what would motivate someone to want shared hardware so much that they'd pay twice as much for the Windows licenses over separate machines.

scarface_74
I worked at AWS ProServe and we had the same issue when going into MS shops.

But it could be worse. While we were basically able to do anything we wanted with our internal lab AWS accounts with no questions asked, the one thing we had to get permission for was to stand up RDS/Oracle instances

zoobab
Microsoft also proposed to buy the complainants behind another antitrust complaint on OneDrive bundling, led by Nextcloud.

Let's file more of those complaints!

Palmik
This complaint seems hypocritical. Microsoft doesn't have to offer their software on other clouds at all.

When will I be able to get Spanner on Azure or AWS or my own hardware?

dzonga
they might raise a valid point. But I don't think enterprise companies will migrate to google cloud, given how products are frequently killed. Now compare that to AWS and Azure. Both AWS and Azure have kept a lot of zombie services running even if they save 1/1000%.
leeeeeepw
Idk... Can I run bigtable or bigquery or spanner locally?

Isn't this anti competitive from gcp?

insane_dreamer
Yet another good reason to run Linux in the cloud.
lolokwhatever
[dead]
grahamj
[flagged]
josefritzishere
the pot calling the kettle black
AtNightWeCode
I think this is the most desperate and pathetic claim for a long time. I mean, it's Google. Google is a dead company. They destroyed the only hand that feeds them. The search engine. They did this on purpose to increase the number of searches. And then I really hate what they done to Google play.

As a senior Azure architect. We try to run as much as possible on Linux to avoid licenses. I don't even understand how you end up running Windows Server on GCP. Never ever heard of a corp that does this. Also, most of the new stuff from MS is platform independent.