woodruffw
As an adjacent observation: the tone in NYPD’s official responses is a clear signal that (1) they don’t particularly care about what the city’s primary financial official has to say, and consequently (2) that their budget is insufficiently controlled and overseen by the city’s democratically elected leaders. It’s remarkable (but not particularly surprising) to see so much open disdain for basic civic interest, including the open claim that the people of NYC are too stupid to understand the value of a service the NYPD pays for with their tax dollars.
namaria
I'm coming to realize that the problem with technology hype men - peddlers of unnecessary complexity of all kinds from cloud and kubernetes everything, to microservices and other architectural fetishes, agile/scrum rituals, and now LLMs, generative AIs etc... They all forget one big thing. For all the 'entropy lowering' powers of whatever they are selling, they always hide the entropy exhaust.

Thermodynamics ought to have taught us that we can only move entropy around. And all these silver bullets have giant gaping entropy exhausts that we get to find out about once they've been paid for.

tomrod
We will see backlash like this, and justifiably so, as we continue to iterate AI/ML as product.

A better use of the tech, though perhaps below the justification threshold for purchasing it as SpotShotter, would be to use it as confirmatory forensics after an instance versus investigating every shot.

Reasoning: if a loud noise happens and no one calls the cops, no harm no foul. But if someone calls the cops or a crime with a weapon is noted, such a murder, wounding, or other violence, this could help narrow down the timeframe the shot may have been observed.

Firerouge
Shocker that NYPD rejected every single recommendation other than, pay your bills on time, and enforce existing contractual requirements.

No willingness to evaluate the product, discuss or prove efficacy, or even consider new renewal contract terms.

romaaeterna
My understanding is that cop car driving down the block and making a visual inspection after a likely gunfire event is a reasonable standard. I would expect that 90% of the time (in fact, 87% here) they won't find anything. It is easy to take a gun indoors after firing it, or even hide it under a jacket. That doesn't mean that a cop car driving by in the next 5 minutes after any gun shot event won't have a positive impact.

Perhaps this is racially biased policing. Gun shot firing events may track racial neighborhoods demographics. In that case, we should consider whether "racial bias" is a useful dialectical tool here.

hyperrail
These news reports quote responses from other interested groups like the New York Police Department itself, the New York Civil Liberties Union, and ShotSpotter, Inc.:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/newyork/news/nypd-shotspotter-re...

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/20/nyregion/nypd-shotspotter...

Note that the NYPD's leader, the New York City police commissioner, is appointed by and answerable to the mayor. Mayor Eric Adams supports the ShotSpotter gunshot alert system, which may explain the NYPD's position.

Also note that this audit is published by the New York City Comptroller's office. Both the mayor and comptroller are directly elected by the people, meaning both Adams and Comptroller Brad Lander are politicians as opposed to nonpartisan bureaucrats/civil servants. That may have something to do with Lander's framing of his office's report.

simonw
ShotSpotter's reputation is terrible. Chicago ditched it a few months ago: https://www.npr.org/2024/02/15/1231394334/shotspotter-gunfir...

The most shocking story I've seen about it was from 2021: Police Are Telling ShotSpotter to Alter Evidence From Gunshot-Detecting AI https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-sh...

panarky
ShotSpotter is a hot mess. Their data can't be trusted if they collude with police to alter their data after the fact to cover for police misconduct.
mrangle
An irrelevant complaint until the cited stats are, first, confirmed with a research critique and then compared to parallel stats in the context of ultimate successful criminal prosecutions without (compared to with) shot spotter.

Because the real goal is successful prosecutions, not to eliminate false calls or to reach accuracy parity with 9/11 calls. To wit, no one would want to eliminate all false calls at the expense of a significant number of real calls; especially if a portion of the real calls would not have been reported via 911. False calls are fine if the number of successful identifications and prosecutions is above the rate without shot spotter.

Moreover, we'd need a methodology that looks at the total amount of time worked for successful cases with and without shot spotter, even including false call time. Being frustrated at "unconfirmed" shooting responses is ridiculous if the total time worked build a case, including false calls, is par or better for the same number of cases that don't involve shot spotter. Efficiencies, and conversely wasted time, can be hidden everywhere.

At what point does the city start ignoring shot spotter critiques because logic incompetent critics generate more noise and busywork than they are worth? After all, they aren't even self-careful of their own perspective and respectful of everyone else enough to have a cheap grad student edit their research review for public presentation. If they don't care, why should everyone else?

The cherry on their BS Sundae. This person has zero data to show that the ultimate shot spotter results are substandard. Fire them and hire someone who can think and therefore doesn't embarrass The City:

>“The NYPD’s response to these audit findings is disappointing and reflects a disinterest in using data, effective performance metrics, and transparency to improve public safety. With a thorough evaluation before deciding whether to renew this multi-million-dollar contract, better performance standards, and more transparency, the NYPD could deploy its resources – especially its officers’ time – far more effectively.”

oldgradstudent
Sounds like a classic case of Algorithm Aversion to me.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40760962